Sanity is madness put to good use. – George Santayana

This photo is inspiring. These members of the New York State Nurses Association marched on Albany in 1971. They took to the streets to advocate for their patients and for the nursing profession. Their spirit lives on as state nurses associations fight for the rights of nurses to advocate for their patients. Well, their spirit lives on in just about every state except Arizona.
There is a big discussion going on over at the Arizona Nurses Association’s Facebook page about the Amanda Trujillo case. Many of their members think that their organization has been unfairly depicted in social media and are voicing their displeasure. I’m all about public discourse, and I welcome the dialogue. It’s about time that nursing organizations are finally talking about this case.
Some additional details have come out about Amanda Trujillo’s case. To recap, Banner Del E. Webb Medical Center fired Amanda Trujillo after she educated a patient that was slated to begin pre-transplant testing the next day. The patient had a transplant knowledge deficit and changed their mind about the possibility of surgery after receiving all the facts. Amanda wrote a nursing order requesting a hospice case management consult at the patient’s request. It’s noteworthy to mention that this discussion happened in the middle of the night. Amanda wrote detailed notes in the patient’s chart about what had transpired during the night, and passed the information on to the oncoming shift. The doctor came in the next day, threw a royal hissy fit at the nurses station, and the rest as they say is history. Now Amanda is fighting for her personal and professional life in front of the Arizona Board of Nursing.
Now let’s get back to the AzNA Facebook page. The AzNA wrote a post stating that it applauds the nurses who have spoken out on Amanda Trujillo’s situation. Thanks AzNA, but I don’t think that you’re really clapping. One nurse was upset that outsiders, nurses who do not live in Arizona, are butting into this case. She wrote, “Interesting responses from non AZ nurses who have never worked with Amanda Trujillo or AzNA.” I’m a little perplexed by this nurse’s comment. You don’t have to be an Arizona resident to be angry about what’s happening to Amanda. I believe Amanda because her story is all too common. There isn’t a nurse alive who hasn’t seen or been a victim of this type of abuse. The events surrounding this case are outrageous, and it’s my ethical duty to denounce the activities of hospitals or nursing organizations that perpetrates or condones abuse. Let me break that down for you. Amanda’s case is my business because I’m a nurse.
Other nurses have said that Amanda should have called and reported these events to the doctor before going off shift. Have you ever called a doctor in the middle of the night about something that could have waited until normal hours of operation?
Nurse: “Hello Doctor. It’s Night Nurse. I need to tell you that your patient is asking questions about his healthcare options. Yes, I know what time it is.”
Doctor: “WTF!!!!!!!!!” CLICK.
More to the point, why didn’t the doctor call Amanda and talk to her before demanding her head on a silver platter? Communication with the health care team is a two way street. And incidentally, the last time I checked the patient has the final say about their treatment plan.
Then there was the comment posted by Ray Kronenbitter, RN, MSN, PCCN, Director of Governmental Affairs Arizona Nurses Association. Here are the first few lines of his statement:
“Kim McAllister suggests in one of her postings that Amanda asked AzNA for assistance and received no response. Actually, Amanda first reached out to AzNA on September 14th at 1:00 a.m., and as I am the AzNA board member in the position most directly related to her query, responded at length to her the very next day. The most impressive aspect of our communications over the next several days was that Amanda’s concern was not only focused on herself, but on patients in hospitals all over with a terminal diagnosis who are never exposed to the palliative and hospice care options to make informed decisions concerning their health and future. Her reach out to AzNA was not so much for support for herself, but for legislative action to gain patients the right to information about all of their options, not just the one that the surgeon or another provider would like them to consider.”
We stand corrected, Ray. You wrote a letter to Amanda. Good for you. Amanda wanted to hear from the president or vice president of your organization, but that’s beside the point. You did an excellent job of sidestepping the main issue. Amanda was focused on her survival, not on legislative issues, and judging by the tone of your response (yes, I’ve read it), you knew that her life was sinking. The first few lines of your letter were very compassionate, then you started trailing off when you talked about how the AzNA advocates for patients. How can you say that when the AzNA won’t back Amanda? Patient advocacy doesn’t start at the State House, it starts at the patient bedside. I wish your board would remember that the next time they chime in on the subject. As a sidenote, I think it’s only fair to mention that Teri Wicker, the President of the AzNA recused herself due to her connection to Banner Health. It’s been duly noted, but unfortunately a perceived conflict of interest is just as damaging as an actual one.
I think that Ray and I would agree on one point. Banner Health fired Amanda because health care is all about money. The administration backed the physician; after all going from the money maker ‘surgery’ to the money loser ‘hospice’ does not contribute in a positive way to the organization’s annual reimbursements. Right, Ray?
The nurses of the New York State Nurses Association summed it up pretty well in 1971. Nurses Care….Do You?
The Mental
February 15th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
I am a patient. And I love and champion nurses to anyone who will listen and even when no one is listening at all. But it is disheartening when the profession of nursing turns on itself. Who are these nurses at the State Nursing Boards who betray and attack other nurses who acted within their scope of practice and who would have been unethical if they hadn’t? Do these Board Nurses not remember what bedside care is all about? But what sickens me the most is this blatant example of nurses eating their young. And I, as a patient, are to trust those who engage in such behavior? Doctors have such a solidarity amongst themselves. In fact, a few years ago, the Texas Medical Board was quoted in a local newspaper as saying that their job was NOT to punish or discipline doctors—it was to rehabilitate them. They built their comaradery in the hell of medical school…why doesn’t the same thing happen to those in the hell of nursing school? These are rhetorical questions.
But please…explain to me…how is it that nurses can be so caring and compassionate to their patients (at least the majority do) and then treat a fellow nurse who did NO wrong as one to be stripped of her livelihood? To appease a prima dona doctor–the high priest of the almighty dollar at the local institution of the worship of such a.k.a. a hospital? Come on! Ethics is not something to be bought or sold. Lord help us if that is the case.
I pray each night for nurses all over the world. I think I may have to add a separate one for those who betray their profession, each other, and at times deliberately betray their patients…what goes around comes around…and may it happen quickly!
Stand strong! Not onlyfor Amanda but also for yourself, your co-workers, and especially your patients! Not to mention your profession….
Carol Gino
February 15th, 2012 at 5:48 pm
Terri, et al..the real problem is that we know this is a legit problem. We know that corps are running hospitals and that healing comes second to the bottom line. The whole way our system is set up is a conflict of interest. Doctors get paid more, hospitals make more, when they treat patients more. Whether that patient wants it or not. As I see it, unless we can change the model of healthcare that fights for direct payment to nurses from third parties, this will never go away because you can’t have equality without an equal power balance. Money adds power to the equation and shifts the scales, badly, non the less that’s the reality. So how to change this? I think we have to go right to the healthcare consumer…if each of us would tell one story about how it was the nurse who saved the patient, it was the nurse who responded to the patient’s wishes etc. maybe the health care consumers would insist on having us at the bedside. As it is, when the studies all show that doctors have more education, what they forget is that most education for either doctors or nurses comes with experience, and nurses generally have more experience so that’s a BS argument. WE, as nurses, who know what’s going on, have to come up with some new suggestions that bypass the current system. I know that sounds like a lot of work, but how on earth are those making policy going to do it? When do you think was the last time they made a bed?
Carol Gino
February 15th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
What this should read is…As I see it, unless we can change the model of healthcare to one that fights for direct payment to nurses from third parties..
That was either me or the spell check…
Jean K
February 16th, 2012 at 12:56 am
This is about to make my head pop from steam! And where would the AzNA be when the pt or family sued Amanda for NOT educating them on procedures and alternatives??? We are liable for NOT educating the patients! I hope these people get their heads handed to them on a platter..
Carrie B
February 19th, 2012 at 3:50 am
I feel bad for what happened to her but I believe she should never have gotten into a discussion clarifying what was going to happen in surgery with the patient. Tell the patient they don’t have to do anything until they are informed, yes. Advocating for the patient, yes. But when the patient had that much disillusion about any surgery (and certainly such a huge one) she should have informed the doctor not passed that on. Yes I get the whole you don’t call the doctor in the middle of the night and it’s not pleasant to wake them up but if it’s 11:00 at night yes I would call. Would I probably get yelled at? Probably. Too bad. That’s how you be an advocate. Then instead of being fired the doctor’s behind would have been on the line when she said my patient has no clue, I called the doc and got yelled at. What is wrong with calling the doctor at 6am before you leave and giving them a heads up that there is major problems brewing and their patient is not consented properly for surgery definitely advocate but to explain is not enough.
Also you asked why the doctor didn’t call the nurse? When the doctor gets in and the nurse is home of their shift isn’t that the nurse’s night time?
Orfyn RN
February 19th, 2012 at 6:58 am
Let me make something clear at the outset: In over 30 years of OR nursing practice, the vast majority of surgeons I have worked with do a terrific job of informed consent, working with nurses as team members, not servants, and good patient family relations. However, there have always been the problem surgeons: abusive to patients and nurses, who just barely go through the motions of informing patients prior to getting consent, who arrive in the OR unprepared, who throw temper tantrums, curse and scream (in front of anyone, including families), who blame nurses for all their own shortcomings and who even commit assault and battery on nurses. And all the good surgeons say nothing. Its that code physicians have, stronger even than the Mafias Omerta. Even the executives of the hospital must endure these rages. One VP I know says he regularly blocks in time for a certain surgeon to come in and as he puts it, “do a tap dance on my desk”. Why is this tolerated? Because the surgeons are where the money is. And where is the nursing leadership? You are told “just put up with it, don’t antagonize him, the patient’s surgery might be adversely affected if you make him angry.” Now many hospitals are enacting “zero tolerance policies” toward such behavior. What have I seen? Nurses instantly terminated without investigation, and the disruptive surgeons told “Bad boy, don’t do it again or we might send you to an anger management class”. The dual standard is alive and well. And where are the state boards of nursing? Well, they are part of the mechanism for keeping nurses down and under control. “Its not our legal mandate to advocate for nurses”.
AzNA applauds the nurses who have spoken out on Amanda Trujillo’s situation. It’s inspiring to see nurses ignited and engaged. | Nurse Up!
February 19th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
[...] Polick Nurses Care, Do You? http://www.nurseratchedsplace.com/2012/02/show-me-how-much-you-care-azna/ Show Me How Much You Care, AzNA – Nurse Ratched’s [...]
Mother Jones, RN
February 19th, 2012 at 5:10 pm
To Carrie B.
Sorry I didn’t get a chance to moderate your comment sooner. I just got done working three 12 hour shifts. I welcome your comments.
I think everyone feels sorry for Amanda. People on both sides of this issue genuinely feel bad about what’s happening. Please help me understand something you said. Why shouldn’t Amanda, or any nurse talk to patients about a procedure? I remember when I worked a surgical unit many moons ago it was my job to keep the patient in the loop about everything. It was an expectation and we were in trouble if we didn’t educate the patient about what to expect. I’m very put out about how Amanda is being treated. It’s an abuse of power. The doctor threw a tantrum at the nurses station. Sadly, that’s NOT an unusual occurrence in many facilities, but I would certainly hope that someone in that state of mind WOULD call me at home and ask me what happened before they got me fired and jeopardized by nursing license. This doctor apparently had a God Complex and decided to bypass human decency and just went for for Amanda’s jugular. I’m very sad about some of the comments I’m reading about this case. Why do nurse’s condone this behavior and side with those who abuse nurses? Maybe our profession suffers from Stockholm Syndrome.
Carol Gino
February 19th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
Carrie, I don’t really understand why you would blindly follow orders and not use your own judgement if you see a patient in distress. We are educated to be advocates-doesn’t that imply that there is something that the patients needed to be protected from. She didn’t over medicate her patient, she didn’t help her escape, she did was she was educated to do. The real problem is the corporate structure and the uneven playing field of doctors and nurses. Why are they insisting on more education, if they are not going to allow us to use that and think? It’s definitely like battered wife/husband or Stockholm syndrome and the intimidation comes from knowing they can split us against each other which always undermines power. This is happening to Amanda now because she believed in the promise and the dream of an evolving nurse model. It will continue to happen as long as we keep educating and then stopping a nurse from practicing…except for those nurses who don’t mind being “STEPFORD” nurses. Right now doctors and corps have things 100% their way. Not at all good for the patients. It is an abuse of power, that of the worse kind because we have vowed to teach and protect our patients…not unless the doc or the corp says no, but until we believe that patient has all the information they need to make a full and complete decision about their own life and care…
The Mental
February 19th, 2012 at 6:13 pm
@Carrie B, from reading your comment repeatedly, I am persuaded that you are not speaking from a nurse’s viewpoint but from that of a doctor? Am I correct? If you are a doctor, your comment helps in illustrating how you (as a doctor) see what transpired and how it could have been handled “better” in your opinion. But from what I know of the Nursing Practice Act and the nurse as patient advocate, Amanda handled this situation as would be expected of any nurse. The problem was the doctor’s reaction [temper trantrum and demanding her license], the hospital backing the doctor’s unreasonable request for her license and then the AZ Board of Nursing seemingly agreeing that her license should indeed be removed…for what reason? For following the ethics of a professional nurse and the Nursing Practice Act? Hey! Wait a minute! Isn’t the mission of state nursing boards to protect the public from unethical and dangerous nurses? Protect the PUBLIC–as in patients? Amanda angered a doctor for answering the patient’s questions–within the appropriate scope of her pratice. So why is the state board even involved? Is it even appropriate for them to be involved? How did her actions damage or endanger the patient? She provided information and the patient made a truly informed decision. It would be interesting to know the exact complaint levied against her by the doctor. Again, how did her actions endanger this patient’s health and well-being? Please forgive my ramblings again. I am only a patient….who seeks to protect the profession that has impacted her life in so many positive ways. Healthcare without nurses as patient advocates–besides all the other endless tasks they do–is a hell I would refuse to enter. I’ll hush now.
YogaNurse
February 19th, 2012 at 10:14 pm
Your last line in this post says it ALL. Thanks.
Carrie B
February 20th, 2012 at 6:04 am
I actually am NOT a doctor I am a nurse. Let me just clarify something. I also think it’s the nurse’s job to educate that patient. When we’re talking about a patient getting ready to undergo a major procedure/surgery that they should have already been consented for they (in theory) shouldn’t have that many questions about the surgical part of things or at least have the understanding they need to agree to the surgery. If they need re-education as to nursing care before or after or hospital procedure of course I’m going to educate my patient. If it was something like them asking about what type of anesthesia they will have I would probably tell them they usually use xyz but that would be something that you need to ask whoever will administer the anesthesia. Would I pass the buck? No I’m going to make sure that the patient gets to speak to CNRA/anesthesiologist who can answer the question. I guess my point is that if a patient has THAT many questions that they are questioning an entire procedure and whether to go through with it that tells me the doctor didn’t do their job. I don’t in turn inform the patient for the doctor I call the doctor in and MAKE them do their job (which they should have done in the first place). If they refuse to do their job then I am going right over their head to their department head or whoever to make sure it’s their license on the line and not mine. I was simply going by the article I read that was supposed to be a direct quote from Amanda in which she said
“I discovered that they had a very big misunderstanding about what they were about to participate in” and “she advised the patient of possible complications.”
I would never advise a patient about specifics like complications. I would tell them that they need to speak to the surgeon that will be operating for that kind of specific information as I am not a surgeon but I can definitely make sure that you understand exactly what’s going to happen to you and make sure that the surgeon answers your question to your satisfaction prior to the procedure because that is their job.
Do I think the doctor acted ridiculous yes. Also they didn’t do their job because the patient should have been consented better if they had that many questions. This back and forth nurse and doctor blame game isn’t getting anyone anywhere. I just think both sides should be accountable and held as so. The doctor did a crappy job explaining and I think as a nurse you are the best advocate by making them to their job and making sure the patient has a voice. You don’t advocate and step in and do the doctor’s job even if they are not doing it.
This is the article I read and based my opinion on.
http://www.kpho.com/story/16646942/nurse-says-she-was-fired-for-educating-patient
Again, she is quoted as saying they had a “very big misunderstanding about what they were about to participate in”. That right there tells me that this is bigger than the nurse’s portion, bigger than the case management portion and that this is significant understanding about the medical plan of care which means that the doctor needs to be involved. As it was apparently the night shift if the surgery/procedure was days off I would have probably passed it on to the next shift to follow up on. Since it was regarding a surgery/procedure that was supposed to take place the next day I would have definitely called the doctor at 6am and told them you absolutely need to deal with this and told them the story. If they were in house and available to talk to the patient at that time I would be in the room and if they were coming up later I would make sure the oncoming shift knew about all the concerns and that they were going to be in the room.
I don’t think “advocate” always indicates that the patient is in danger. We all know how long it takes to learn the medical system and how thinks work. Heck it’s different place to place. (I also don’t see why on Earth a nurse can’t order a case management consult…which is basically a nurse to nurse consult. For whatever reason the hospital Amanda worked at didn’t allow it and she ordered one. Stupid policy yes, but it’s what the policy is. One that in my opinion the nurse’s and case managers should work on getting changed.) Advocate doesn’t have to be a “fighting” word (yes it is a lot of the time). It can be as simple as a go between for the patient who brings their concerns and the provider who can write and order for something.
As ar as the BON’s involvement if a complaint was filed then doesn’t the board have to investigate that whether it wants to or not. They can’t just blow it off. Why would you want them too? If they just pushed it under the rug and sided with the nurses that would give any license that board gives out zero credibility. If the board does an extensive investigates and then finds in her favor then that gives her even more credibility.
Honestly, I was just trying to get people to actually look at the facts before jumping on and siding with the nurse just because she’s a nurse and using this for something it isn’t. Do I agree with a lot of the arguments and that this is a problem? Yes, sometimes it is but in this case I see a nurse who broke the rules and is now being investigated for it. I just feel like no one knows the actual facts and are just saying that the nurse was picked on because that’s what always happens. Now it’s spun into this big thing. And I don’t appreciate the comment about how I would blindly follow orders and not use my judgement. Obviously you don’t know me but if this was my patient and I would have called the doctor in the morning and if they were coming up at 7am (which if they thought their patient was backing out of a surgery I’m sure they would be) I would have stayed to be in the room when they got there or at least spoke with the doctor directly. There would be no blowing off or ignoring of my patient’s issues I assure you. I have taken on doctor’s plenty or time and would have no problem going right to the patient advocate, the department head, nursing department for back up, etc. I have worked as a civilian in a military hospital and believe me if I see a doctor who is a Colonel going around policy or not attending to a patient’s needs I have no problem calling them on it and if I don’t get what I feel are satisfactory results FOR MY PATIENT I will go right over their head. Don’t really care if they aren’t my friend and don’t really care if they don’t like the wake up call in the night. Most surgeons I would work with would rather get out of bed for an 11pm phone call than to walk into work the next morning and get blind sighted by huge issue with one of their surgeries that was scheduled for that day.
Arizona’s attack on nurses: the Amanda Trujillo case goes viral - Three Sonorans
February 23rd, 2012 at 11:21 pm
[...] Show Me How Much You Care, AzNA [...]
Interim Order
March 1st, 2012 at 2:04 pm
There is more to the story than we know.
http://bit.ly/A6B5Gd
The Mental
March 11th, 2012 at 6:01 pm
So what is going on with the other allegations by the AZ BON “exposed” or mentioned in the BON interim order posted by “Interim Order”? Did they dredge those up somewhere and someone from the BON is posing as “Interim Order?” and an outsider? Something is just too fishy…has Amanda really been reported to the AZ BON before on multiple occasions? And thus the psychiatric eval is called for?
Mother Jones, RN
March 11th, 2012 at 6:53 pm
Amanda has never been reported to the BON before this incident. The psych evaluation is their way to discredit Amanda. Apparently they think she is crazy because she is fighting back.
The Mental
March 11th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
Ok…I think I got lost in the legalese language of the Interim Order as posted by the AZ BON on their website (and the link is provided by the post above my last one by “Interim Order”? Here is the part that confused me:
On the link provided above by “Interim Order”, the Interim Order Case No. 1104073 states:
Pursuant to A.R.S. 32-1664 (F), IT IS HEREBY ORDERED as follows:
1. As a result of your failure to maintain professional boundaries, multiple practice errors, and scope of practice violations while employed at either Banner Del E. Webb Hospital, Mayo Clinic Hospital, Valley Home Care, and/or Mountain Vista Hospital, the Board issues this Interim Order.
2. Blah blah blah, etc.
Does the BON not know where events they referenced occurred? Or is there evidence from those other places of emplyment? If there isn’t, then I think the AZ BON has committed slander. The order also indicates that Amanda has an attorney. I support Amanda. I condemn the AZ BON to you know where….but what the heck is going on here?
PolynesiaNurse67
May 11th, 2013 at 2:12 am
I don’t understand why all the nurses in Arizona ban together and strike!! If they can do it to Amanda, then they sure can do it to any nurse!!!!! I bet anything that they will heed the calls to nurse striking against a hospital than a low life doctor throwing a big hissy fit @ the nurses station! Last time I checked that was violence in the workplace and bullying in the workplace!! We as nurses must stand together like Family!! Why are we tolerating this type of behavior. It’s like allowing another to hit us!!! I pray for you Ananda that you will be vindicated and that all who brought suffer to you and family pay dearly, especially that low life doctor and the hospital and the AZ BON!!!!!